Preacher: R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Text/title: Revelation 2:8-11, 3:7-13; The Devil's Prison and the Lord's Open Door - The Letters to the Churches at Smyrna and Philadephia.

The churches at Smyrna and Philadelphia were churches undergoing persecution. Imagine what it would be like to receive a letter from the Lord Jesus Christ, even as you suffer for Him, even in the midst of intense persecution.

These letters are naturally taken together because they are so similar. In both cities, the main things that marked the experience of these churches was both the present and future reality of persecution.

Something else marks these two letters that is different from the other five letters to churches in Revelation: there is no rebuke, no correction, no criticism. There is comfort, promise, assurance and warning.

These letters offer us a classic biblical understanding of suffering.

The letter to the church at Smyrna

Smyrna was almost assuredly the most dangerous place on the planet to be a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. The allegiance of these citizens to Rome was such that any claim to a rival citizency was viewed as allegiance to another emperor. This church is suffering persecution and is about to suffer an even great persecution.

The Lord Jesus Christ begins his letter noting that He is the firstborn from the dead. He speaks to His own death and resurrection before He speaks to the suffering and persecution that the believers in Smyrna were facing. This is a precious reminder to us that no saint ever suffers anything that Jesus Christ does not know. To suffer in Christ's name is to know that we are safe: we are known by the one who knows our suffering.

The poverty of the church at Smyrna was also great. This poverty was a poverty of faithfulness. Jesus says to the church at Smyrna: I know your poverty, but you are rich. This concerns me when I think of many of the churches in America. If we could not entertain ourselves, if we could not buy ourselves happiness, would we be more spiritually rich?

Jews had a special exemption from emperor worship so that you did not have to burn incense to the emperor on certain occasions. The believers in the Lord Jesus Christ were declared to be "not Jews" by the Jews and thus were not exempt. The Jews in Smyrna had cast out Christians, leading Christ to call these Jews members of a "synagogue of Satan."

Jesus then addresses the believers in the church at Smyrna, telling them to not fear ... what they are about to suffer. This is counter-intuitive to what we would expect. We would expect the words to be, do not fear you will not suffer. But these are not the words. The Lord Jesus Christ exhorts the church, be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life.

This is the crown that an athlete received after finishing a race, a crown received after one endures suffering. The crown does go to those who are faithful unto death.

Those who are faithful will not be touched by the second death. The first death is physical death. The second death is separation from the loving presence of God forever: those who are faithful until the first death are safe from the second death.

The letter to the church at Philadelphia

Jesus identifies Himself as the one who has the key of David. He is revealing Himself as the eternal King in the line of David, the King of an eternal kingdom. The door that Jesus opens no one can shut and the door He shuts, no one can open. And Jesus tells the church at Philadelphia that He has set before them an open door. No one can shut doors that Jesus has opened.

Almost certaintly, this open door refers to the kingdom of God. The people were shut out of the synagogue, but they were not shut out of the kingdom of God. The Gospel has enemies, but it cannot be foreclosed. Those who have been adopted, those who have become heirs to the promises of God, they are the ones who understand the power of the Gospel and they are the ones to whom the door is opened.

Not only is there an open door to God's adopted people, but those who oppose His people will one day bow at the feet of His people. Those who persecute the church now will one day have to bow at the feet of those they persecuted and say, "yes, you were loved."

Jesus tells these people to whom the door is open to hold fast their confession. To persevere in faith. Jesus says He will make those who endure to the end a pillar in the temple of "My God."

What is the Spirit saying in these letters?

1. The Gospel has enemies.

The enemies of the Gospel bring tribulation, poverty and slander. We know that there are enemies without and enemies within. These two letters speak to the enemies without, behind whom the devil himself stands. We are war against principalities and powers, of whom Satan is the chief accuser.

2. The Lord will vindicate His own.

The gates of hell will not prevail against His own. Jesus is the firstborn of the dead. Even as the Father vindicated the Son, so also will the Son vindicate His own. Not even Satan or Death can shut what Christ has opened.

3. The faithful will endure.

This endurance is the sign of people's authentic faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death. He who overcomes will be made a pillar in the house of God. Every believer is called to persevere in faith, regardless of their circumstances, regardless of their situation.

4. The example and witness of the martyrs serves the Gospel.

There were a series of martyrs in the church at Smyrna that we know of early in church history. Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna. The Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is subversive to every empire and every regime. Christ has set forth an open door, which no one can shut.

N.T. Wright's doctrine of justification subverts the core of the Gospel and must be rejected, Southern Seminary professors agreed at a panel discussion, Sept. 3, in Alumni Memorial Chapel.

Though Wright has made many significant contributions to evangelicalism defending the resurrection and historicity of Christ, his views on justification are cause for alarm, said Southern professors Tom Schreiner and Mark Seifrid.

"Wright has had a massive impact in New Testament scholarship," said Schreiner, James Buchanan Harrison Professor of New Testament Interpretation and associate dean of Scripture and interpretation at Southern. "He would be in the evangelical movement. He has written a fabulous book on the resurrection of the Son of God. I think that is the best book out on the resurrection. He has written very helpful material on the historical Jesus."

Seifrid noted that Wright's view of justification as a progressive reality deviates from Scripture.

"Wright's view shifts the nature of salvation from the once and for all work of God in Jesus Christ to some sort of gradual transformation in your life or my life," said Seifrid, Mildred and Ernest Hogan Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Southern. "Wright thinks of Jesus fundamentally as example, as this paradigm of what a human being is to be, while He is also God at the same time. (For justification) everything then depends on transformation in our lives."

Boyce College Dean Denny Burk disagreed with Wright's differentiation between initial and final justification.

"Wright argues that initial justification is by faith, but final justification is based on works, whereas we would say that initial and final justification are based on Christ's work," Burk said.

R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern, moderated the panel, which featured Schreiner, Seifrid, Burk and Brian Vickers, associate professor of New Testament interpretation at Southern.

Wright, who has served as bishop of Durham since 2003, is the author of "Justification: God's Plan and Paul's Vision" (2009). Wright's work came out after John Piper wrote "The Future of Justification: A Response to N. T. Wright" (2007). Some have called Wright's book a response to Piper, pastor for preaching at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, Minn., but Mohler said the work doesn't read that way.

"Wright doesn't actually take on the most crucial and critical arguments made by John Piper," Mohler said.

Burk said Piper's critique of Wright's distinction between initial and future justification is the most important part of "The Future of Justification," a view Wright reaffirms in his new book.

Imputation

The panel identified the doctrine of imputation as a fundamental area of disagreement with Wright, who believes the Protestant Reformers got that cardinal doctrine wrong.

"Wright's claim is no less than that the Protestant Reformers and their heirs have misunderstood not only Paul and not only first-century Judaism, but the doctrine of justification and thus, the Gospel," Mohler said. "That is an audacious claim."

Burk noted that Wright believes it would be unjust for God to impute Christ's righteousness to people.

"He doesn't believe in the imputation of Christ's righteousness," Burk said. "He says that there is not the exchange of Christ's righteousness being imputed to us and our sin being imputed to Him, because this would be unjust."

Vickers noted that Wright's new book often mixes truth with error. While he speaks of Abraham, Israel the Messiah and the world in his tracing of the broad storyline of Scripture, Wright fails to develop a key theme.

"What is missing in Wright's new book is: where is Adam?" Vickers noted. "The traditional view (of justification) is all about Paul boiling the human race down to two people: Adam and Christ. People are either in Adam or in Christ. That is not dealt with at all in Wright's book."

Schreiner said the Protestant Reformer Martin Luther and Wright would be talking about two different things if they had a discussion about justification.

"I think they define it very differently," Schreiner said. "Wright defines justification as covenant faithfulness. Wright says that justification is all about inclusion in the people of God, it is about ecclesiology. Luther would say it is about being right with God; it is about how you get saved."

The New Perspective on Paul

Schreiner noted that one foundation of Wright's view of justification is E.P. Sanders' argument about first-century Judaism in "Paul and Palestine Judaism" (1977). Schreiner said Sanders argues that Judaism was not a legalistic religion, that it was not a religion of works-based righteousness.

Despite the fact that many respected New Testament scholars have questioned the validity of Sanders' reading of Jewish sources that accord with his view -- including Seifrid, D.A. Carson, Peter O'Brien and Simon Gathercole -- Wright simply assumes Sanders' view is correct.

While Wright has not made any theological or philosophical contributions to the New Perspective, Schreiner said that the bishop's popularity among evangelical circles has been a boon for that interpretative movement.

"Wright is a lot closer to us (evangelicals theologically)," Schreiner said. "So, when he speaks he resonates with evangelical audiences. He holds Scripture to be the Word of God. He has a plan to put the whole Bible together: we want to do that as evangelicals. He is enormously gifted, has a wonderful personality and really speaks to people today."

Despite his popularity, the panelists agreed that Wright's defective view of justification is a threat to orthodox Christian teaching not only exegetically and theologically, but pastorally as well. Schreiner said he recently read a book by Wright that was a compilation of sermons Wright gave at a church in England during the week of Easter. In the sermons, Schreiner said Wright failed to preach the Gospel even once.

"He did not proclaim the Gospel in a whole week of Easter sermons. I find that mind-boggling," Schreiner said. "Why did he never proclaim the Gospel? Because it is not at the forefront of his thinking. It is not at the forefront of his thinking that people need to repent and trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. What is at the forefront of his thinking is social transformation.

"I think he misses what is happening with ordinary people and their stance before God. Nothing is more important than one's stance before God."

Preacher: R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

Text/title: Rev. 2:1-7; The treason of lost love - Christ's letter to the church at Ephesus

Introduction

Ephesus was one of the most important cities in Asia Minor. It was geographically strategic, right at the opening of a river with a natural harbor.

At the time Paul wrote his letter to the Ephesians, it is estimated that 250,000-500,000 people resided there in a space not much larger than several of our campuses strung together: it was an urban center.

It was politically important: Caesar Augustus made Ephesus one of his four main cities of emperor worship. It was religiously pluralistic.

Paul spent two years in Ephesus, ministering there. We learn from Acts 19 and 20 that Paul had a minister of exorcism there. In 19:17-20, we see something of the evangelistic harvest there: the Word of God continued to increase and prevailed mightily.

The epistle, the letter, to Ephesus contains a great body of Christian teaching. Paul notes that in love God predestined people for adoption as sons. Paul prays for the body of believers there, giving thanks to God for their faith and love toward all the saints. The letter includes with Paul saying, "Grace be with all who love our Lord Jesus Christ with love incorruptible" (Eph 6:24).

Letter to Ephesus in Revelation

This letter was written to the church in Ephesus, not to the city. It was a letter that was intended to be overheard, for it is a call to all of the churches to hear what the Spirit writes. In speaking to His church in Ephesus, Jesus Christ speaks to His church everywhere in all places and at all times.

Jesus speaks to His church as one who holds them, establishes them and rules them. Initially, Jesus provides words of commendation, but then there is a turn: I have this against you.

Commendation (2:1-3, 6)

The commendation is an incredible commendation.

First, the church at Ephesus is not known merely for words, but for its deeds. They are known for the common, ordinary deeds of ministry; deeds that are extraordinary. Here is a church that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself judges to be a church of good works.

This is a church that isn't sitting still. Faith is not dead in Ephesus: the works are the demonstration of this. We know that so many churches simply because they do not do the deeds. Instead of good deeds, there are lethargy, death, sloth and paralysis.

Second, this is a church that has persevered in the midst of trouble. This is a church that gospel makes claims that the enemies of the gospel well understand. And the enemies of the gospel were present, organized and numerous in Ephesus. This is a church that had been tried. Lesser churches might have scattered, but not this church. This church endured. And endurance is held out in the New Testament as the proof of faith. Their endurance is not passive; it is active.

Third, Jesus speaks of their orthodoxy. This is a church that demonstrated doctrinal discernment and discrimination. It defended the truth; it suffered for the cause of the truth. We are living in such a day of theological compromise. How few are the churches that Jesus would commend in this matter. In Acts 20:29, Paul exhorted the church at Ephesus to watch out for ravenous wolves, for false teachers. It is tremendous to see that this church was doing exactly what Paul, what the Word of God, told them to do.

Fourth, Jesus said the church at Ephesus hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans. The Nicolaitans were an accomodationist heresy. They blended religions. They failed at the test of integrity that the church at Ephesus passed. The Lord Jesus Christ hates the perversion of His Gospel; we must do the same.

Rebuke (2:4)

The word "but" swings the entire tenor of this letter. This "but" carries the weight of the Lord's judgment in a way that we understand. But...I have this against you that you have abandoned the love you had at first.

This knife cuts. We must wonder: how is this possible? Jesus warns of this in Matt 24:11-14 when He says that most people's love will grow cold before the end, but those who persevere to the end will be saved.

Israel lost its first love. The church at Ephesus has abandoned its first love. What is this love? What have they abandoned? Have they lost love for Christ or for each other? The answer to this is: you cannot have one without the other. In 1 John 3:14, we read that we know that we have passed from death to life, if we love the brethren. God has loved us magnificently: so we also ought to love one another.

Love is the very substance of the visible love of God. And if we do not love, we are of death rather than of life.

Jesus tells the church at Ephesus to remember from where they had fallen and repent (2:5). What is the result if they do not repent: their lampstand will be removed. The congregation would literally die. And, brothers and sisters, we see congregations all around us dying. There is no need for an autopsy: the main causes of death are heresy or the loss of love.

Conclusion

What we confront in this passage is the treason of lost love. This letter, if we are honest, hits really close to a theological seminary. Our task, as an institution serving the churches of the Lord Jesus Christ, is to hold on to the truth. We want to be found tenaciously faithful. We want to be found as the people of the truth.

But a danger lurks nearby, so close at hand. We desperately must pray that we will not hear the verdict, "but you have left your first love." This is perhaps the closest danger to us all. I hear these words as a warning: persevere. We must pray that we would not leave our first love. Love for Christ, love for His church and love for His people.

Ligon Duncan serves as senior minister of First Presbyterian Church in Jackson, Miss.

1. What should a man have in mind as he beings his first pastorate?

Ligon Duncan: First, he needs to be committed to preach God's Word and then, second, he needs to develop a deep love for His people. (He should pray) for God to really grant him a deep love in his heart for his people, so that when he does have to confront his people with their sins, they know that he does it with a heart of total love and commitment with, and for, them.

Third, I'd say be committed to be a man of prayer for them. So, preach the Word, love his people and be committed to prayer and especially cultivate prayer in the life of the church. Fourth, he should invest himself in his elders or his leaders. Cultivate them so they can come alongside him and do ministry.

Fifth, he should promote family religion in the homes, and then, sixth, he should be committed to living a godly life himself. So I'd say those six things ought to be a standard commitment of every young man going into his first pastorate.

2. How can a young minister have a good accountability structure?

LD: If he's married, then it starts with his wife, because if you can lie to wife, then you can lie to your accountability partner. So, it starts with having the kind of proper relationship of accountability with your wife.

Second, accountability to your church leadership so that they know that you really do submit to their authority and that you are accountable to them in appropriate ways. And then, I do think that it's important for ministers to cultivate special pastoral relationships, preferably with guys that are close to them in proximity, where they can talk about the deep heart issues that they are struggling with, their ministry issues they are struggling with and their temptation issues they are wrestling with.

I think you need webs of accountability because very often, certain sins can slip through one track of accountability and get caught by others, and we need that. We need to hem ourselves in so that we get caught quickly and easily, so I believe in a multi-faceted web of accountability.

3. What is a recent occurrence that made you laugh?

LD: Well, my son -- Jennings, who is 9 -- is very funny. And he says very, very funny things. Jennings recently just had his finger cut off in an accident on a zip line. We were in the hospital having the orthopedic surgeon look at his finger, and her name was Cynthia Pullion. She walked into the room and said, "I'm Cynthia Pullion" and he looked up at her and he said, "They sent you to pull what!?" I laughed pretty hard when he said that.

Preacher: Russell D. Moore, senior vice president for academic administration and dean of the School of Theology at Southern Seminary.

Text/title: 2 Corinthians 5:16-6:13 -- "God is not a beggar? Why your ministry must become more pathetic before it can become less pathetic."

I heard a speaker who once said, "God is not a beggar and neither am I" and I liked it.

But as I come to this text, I realize that in some ways that pastor was wrong and so am I.

Paul writes to this church in Corinth in some ways defending himself, but in some ways defending his mission. His mission is a mission of reconciliation. Paul was given a message of reconciliation that is to be taken to all of the world, to all the nations.

Paul brought his message with passion, with a kind of throbbing energy that too often is absent from our own ministries.

We live in the generations that are the third, fourth and possibly fifth generations of the Pentecostal movement. And our response is sometimes to retreat into a haughty rationalism with all the sturdiness of a skeleton with about as much warmth or to treat into a breezy, warm moralism. That is not what we have been given.

Paul is saying that it is not just about what we think and choose, but what we feel.

If we hear the Gospel the way we have received it we will hear a God who begs. Not a God who begs as a weakling, but as a sovereign, majestic Creator who loves.

Ministers of reconciliation

When Paul writes about the Gospel, the ministry of reconciliation, there is a sense of awe and wonder. In Christ, everyone is a new creation. The longings that we all have in our heart for a new creation, come to a beginning when we are found in Christ.

We have been handed as messengers this message of reconciliation and we are called to pass it on to others.

As we lead Awana children into a classroom or sit down to parse Greek verbs, I wonder if we realize: it is all true. It is not just a set of things we have been given. It is all true.

When Paul is struck with wonder and joy, God is speaking through Him.

In 2 Cor 5:16, Paul speaks of no longer regarding Christ according to the flesh. We are to do the same with Christ and with everyone that we meet. We are to view everyone in light of the Gospel, through the lens of the Gospel.

We do not regard one another according to the flesh: we see what God sees through the Gospel. We see the beginnings of a new creation in all the world.

I wonder how different our preaching would be, how much more powerful our mission would be, if we would stop considering those who the world thinks is powerful: the football starts and beauty queen, if we would look at each other and see Jesus Christ in each other and evaluate the world the way Christ sees the world.

I wonder what would happen if we had a sense of exuberance when we encountered the mentally retarded person in our congregation. I wonder what would happen if we were able to see the redemption of Christ in the horrible obese man who comes and asks awkward questions after the message. I wonder if we would understand better the mystery and wonder of what Paul is talking about when he says we are given the message of reconciliation.

Ambassadors of Christ

Whatever an ambassador says, he is speaking on behalf of the one who sent him. The hearers don't have to wonder who sent the message: it is already clear. And we are Christ's ambassadors.

Jesus is speaking through you. Jesus is present with you. Judgment day is now hanging over the Awana room, or congregation or street corner.

When you are speaking the Gospel message, you are begging for God as if Jesus was there pleading with the people in that room.

You say, "I can't understand a sovereign God as a beggar." You can't understand a crucified world emperor either: that is exactly the point.

Do you in your ministries, or as you are preparing for your ministries, feel the gravity of begging. If someone were holding your child up against a wall with a gun, you would drop to your knees and plead, "please! don't do that."

What you have been called to as ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is to speak with all of the sovereign authority of Jesus Himself, which He has given to His church, to a lost world, "please ... don't do that."

Do you feel the gravity of the Gospel?

The affection of Christ

Paul sees people through the Spirit the way that Jesus sees them through the Spirit in a way that he gives no offense to them, except for the offense of the Gospel.

Pau said I am willing for you to say anything about me that you want to say, for he knows that God knows is true and he speaks to them the Gospel, saying "open your hearts." Does your Gospel ministry look that way?

The message of the Gospel is meant to create in you an affection for people that is built not on friendships or already-existing relationships, but on the Gospel. Such affection comes from the Holy Spirit, a Spirit who is not a thing, but a person.

If you really glimpse the majesty of God, if you really love the Gospel and really feel the weight of judgment and hell, then you will plead, implore and beg.

Speaker: R. Albert Mohler Jr.

Title/text: The Time is Near - The Emphatically Eschatological Essence of the Christian Ministry; Rev. 1:1-20

Introduction

The backdrop and background of ministry is its end. The foreground is a time of tremendous conflict and controversy. A time of change.

We are here because all around us a world is in confusion and turmoil. The ministry is a place where the gospel intersects with the strangeness of this world. We come to seek to the mind of Christ. We look around and observe poverty and war and confusion: what are we to think?

Revelation 1:1-20

As John speaks, he speaks of the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Sovereignty of Christ over time

This theme is repeated. We hear of things that must soon take place. We see in this chapter that the time is near. But let's be honest: it doesn't feel near. The time is near: these things must soon take place. It was near when Jesus spoke these words.

In Rev. 6:10, there is a marker of God's people wondering how long the wait will be. In Luke 18:8, we read that God will vindicate His own without delay. In Romans 16, we see that God will soon crush people underneath His feet. Soon, not in chronological fulfillment, but in light of the collapsing of time in eternal and eschatological reality.

Eternity is always placed as the context of ministry.

The Christian ministry requires an eschatological timeline. There is a yearning that ought to be implanted in our hearts when we think about time collapsing into eternity.

The time is soon. These things will soon take place. Jesus Christ is sovereign over time and that is the only assurance you have that your life and ministry has purpose.

Sovereignty of Christ over kings

Jesus Christ is described as the Ruler over the kings of the earth. Just as the world does not reflect that the end is near, so does much of the world not live as if Jesus is the King of the earth. The message of John in Revelation is the reletivization of all the powers of the earth. The powers that be, whether it be military, or cultural or political, are all reletivized by the Ruler of the kings of the earth. But one day it will be apparent that Jesus Christ was and is the Ruler of the kings of earth.

And this King has established a kingdom. The church of the Lord Jesus Christ is a kingdom of priests. This is a kingdom that has been bought by His blood. We are made to be a kingdom by Christ's sovereign act. We are His citizens, we are priests. Thus, to Christ be the glory forever and ever.

The kingdoms of this world think themselves to powerful. They can intimidate. They can imprison. But the Ruler of the kings of the earth is the Alpha and the Omega. It is He who is and who was and is to be. It is He will judge. It is made clear that in His appearing all will know that He is King of kings and Lord of lords.

This King is coming in vindication and in judgment. He is coming in a visible context: every eye will see Him. He will be recognized by all, even those who pierced Him. There is glory and power in this. He is no longer riding into Jerusalem on the foal of a donkey, nor resting in a manger in Bethlehem.

If you think that your ministry has to be accomplished in your lifetime, then you will die unfulfilled. If you do not live in light of the lordship of Christ you will be intimidated by those around you who think themselves powerful. We will either cower in fear or try to make a deal with the regime.

Sovereignty of Christ over His church

In each of the seven letters to the churches in Revelation, it is made clear the letters are to made known to every church of the Lord Jesus Christ throughout the ages until He comes.

Christ tells His church to not be afraid, for He is the one who has the keys to death and to Hades.

John's vision in the book of Revelation is of the One who is Lord over all: He is sovereign over time, over the rulers of the earth and over His church. Jesus gives to John this vision and through this vision He will instruct and edify His churches. Jesus alone has the right and authority to say what He will say to the seven churches in Revelation and to say what He will say to His church.

Each local church belongs to Christ. It is He who is sovereign over His church.

Here is the feature story on Joshua Harris as it appeared on the cover of the most recent issue of Towers. You can also read a three-part Q&A with Harris on pastoral ministry and his relationship with C.J. Mahaney. Here are parts 1, 2 and 3 of the interview.

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You've graduated from Southern Seminary.

Gone are late nights parsing Greek verbs for Tom Schreiner, reviewing notes from Tom Nettles' church history class and trying to figure out how you can write sermon titles, let alone preach sermons, like Russell D. Moore. All of that is in the past.

The congregation of First Baptist Church of Lebanon, Mo., has just called you as its new senior pastor. Like a thoroughbred in the gate seconds before the race, you are ready to run.

So what should you be thinking?

Joshua Harris, senior pastor of Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg, Md., said such first time ministers need to begin at what seems an unlikely place: with the end in mind.

"Think about things in terms of the long haul, have a long term perspective," Harris said. "You can shoot out of the blocks trying to accomplish everything and have a youthful zeal that is really more about making a name for yourself or making fireworks in some way to make everybody feel like something really great is happening.

"But if you really see it as you laying a foundation and building something for the long term, I think that perspective is going to influence how you teach and how you invest yourself in the people of the church."

Harris, who is 34 and serving in his first pastorate himself, said young ministers also need to be ready to learn from those who are older and more experienced.

"I also think it is so important to have mentors in your life, people that you are talking to and getting help from, an older pastor who you can ask questions of," he said. "There are just so many things that other guys have walked through that you can learn from. If you don't have to make all the mistakes and learn the lesson again, it would save you a lot of hassle.

"So just the humility of saying (to older pastors), ‘here are the questions I am asking and the challenges I am facing' and those older pastors will just have so much life experience and be able to help you."

While Harris' first senior pastorate is not your average one -- Covenant Life has more than 3,000 members -- there are still several valuable lessons for young pastors and pastors-to-be to learn from his life and ministry.

Learning from C.J. Mahaney

Harris -- author of several books, including "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" (Multnomah: 1997) and "Stop Dating the Church!" (Multnomah: 2004) -- began serving as senior pastor of Covenant Life in 2004. He came to the church in 1997 to serve as pastoral intern under C.J. Mahaney, president of Sovereign Grace Ministries, who was then senior pastor of Covenant Life.

Harris had previously spoken at Covenant Life -- he spoke at his father's conferences on homeschooling -- and in conversation with Mahaney, he exhorted Harris to look for someone to mentor him.

After thought and prayer Harris asked Mahaney to fill the role.

"I just saw so many qualities that I wanted to have in my own life in C.J.," Harris said. "Seeing him live his theology made me want the theology. It is just words on paper until you see somebody in the good (situation) of (living out) a real knowledge of God, a real grasp of the Gospel."

Harris said his request came at a time in Mahaney's life when God had been convicting him about the importance of training the next generation.

"It was just one of those moments where God's providence is so evident that he (Mahaney) was willing to let me come out and be a part of the church," Harris said. "I ended up living in his basement for a year, learning from his family and beginning to be trained in ministry."

During the internship, Harris started and organized the annual "New Attitude" conference (now called "NEXT"), a conference of teaching and worship aimed at young adults. Harris said Mahaney also gave him preaching opportunities, where he would critique and encourage him, and read and discussed several books with him.

"The mentoring continues," Harris said. "He still gives me feedback on how I lead and tells where he thinks I am getting it wrong and right, and I benefit from that relationship."

Learning to lead

Realizing that he will give an account to God for his flock, Harris undertakes his role as pastor with great earnestness.

"The senior pastor is ultimately responsible, even for other people's decisions: you are the one who is called to take responsibility," he said. "There is definitely a weight of needing to faithfully preach, but then also carry a lot of leadership responsibilities.

"And that is not a one time deal. You have to day in, day out, week after week, year after year keep preaching the Word of God, keep proclaiming the Gospel and it is just a long race."

Harris recognizes his situation is uncommon: he stepped into his first senior pastorate in a large church. On his first Sunday, Harris preached from Joshua 24, a passage that reminds the Israelites that they are living in cities they did not build and harvesting crops they did not plant.

"I preached from that because that is how I felt," he said.

Harris said God has used his situation to impress upon him the overriding importance of faithfulness in his position.

"(I am) very aware of the fact that the church and, even more essentially, the Gospel is a stewardship, it is something that is entrusted to us," he said. "My experience has really laid that weight on my shoulders more.

"I really have felt the sense of something being handed to me and the sense of ‘I need to be faithful to guard what has been entrusted to me and deliver that to the next generation.' It is not about ‘Hey, I need to come and innovate' and ‘Hey, what mark can I make on this?' and that sort of thing. Of course there is a place for innovation, but in the confines of saying ‘This Gospel is unchanging; this is truth that I need to preserve and pass on to other men.'"

Teaching the value of church membership

In "Stop Dating the Church," Harris challenges people to commit and stay committed to a local church. In the interview with Towers, Harris noted that when people are not committed to their local church they are "first and foremost disobeying God, then cheating themselves -- because they are not receiving the care, love and encouragement that flows through the church -- then cheating others."

In a talk at the Gospel Coalition conference in April, Harris recounted the story of a woman who wanted to have "herself, Jesus and a mountain stream" at her baptism. Another person he talked to said they were going to Israel to be baptized in the Jordan River. Harris said such approaches to baptism reveal a fundamental misunderstanding about the role of the local church in one's life.

"Okay, I understand wanting to be baptized in the Jordan River: that is cool, that is a pretty neat thing," he said. "But I would love for people to be in a place to say, ‘You know what, unless my church is there, I want to be baptized in the fake tank (in my church) because baptism is not just about me, it is about us.

"This is about what God is doing in us. God used the people in this church to save me and I want, because I am called to this community, I want unbelievers there, I want them to hear me testify to what Jesus has done."

Harris lists several biblical reasons for leaving a church, including moral failing or doctrinal infidelity allowed or upheld by the church leadership, but says apart from such situations, people should stick with the body. Harris said it can be valid to switch churches because of a difference in ministry vision or theological emphasis, but warned that they are many dangers in such situations.

"It would be important first of all to evaluate the pattern of your own life," he said. "If you say, ‘I'm thinking I should do this' ask, ‘Have I ever done this before?' If you say, ‘Oh, yeah: eight times in the past two years,' then you might need to stop and say, ‘Do you realize there is a pattern here, that you are always seeing something better?'

"Another question I would ask is have you humbly communicated some of (your concerns or reasons for leaving) to the church leaders? That is hard to do. It is easier to criticize than it is to say, ‘I respect you, I love this church, but I want to share ways in which I think that we could grow. And I want to be open to evaluation. Maybe I am not seeing something clearly.' You want to leave in a way that preserves the unity of that local church and doesn't create any ill will.

"So just really ask some tough questions and make sure you are leaving for the right reasons."

Harris said he is tremendously honored to serve as pastor of Covenant Life.

"I still just wake up and think, ‘I can't believe I am serving in this way,'" he said. "I get to serve with a team of men who I so respect; they are my dear friends. It's a role of service and I am not going to have it forever. Lord willing, I will be able to pass it on faithfully to someone else."

Harris is also the author of "Boy Meets Girl: Say Hello to Courtship" and "Sex Is Not the Problem (Lust Is): Sexual Purity in a Lust-Saturated World." His newest book, "Dug Down Deep: Unearthing What I Believe and Why it Matters?" is due in January 2010.

This is the final part of a three-part interview with Joshua Harris,senior pastor of Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg, Md. Here are parts 1 and 2. In this final part of the interview, Harris talks about the value and importance of local church involvement, a healthy approach leaving a church and whether or not he recommends seminary training.

You can also download a pdf of the Towers issue on "Your First Pastorate" that features a story on Harris.

Q. You shared a story (in your Gospel Coalition 2009 national conference presentation) about a woman who wanted herself, Jesus and a mountain stream for baptism. It is not uncommon for that kind of individual spiritual experience to be spiritual mecca for people. How do you encourage people that corporate involvement is spiritually healthy for them?

JH: We have to keep hearing things over and over again. Every time someone is baptized we have to keep reminding people of the significance of it [corporate involvement with other Christians in a local church], the meaning of it, the purpose of it.

It is not just your private spiritual experience, but here is what it means in terms of the church, here is how it glorifies God and here is what we are doing as we sit and watch. We are playing a part in this and we are accepting this person into membership and that is an incredible statement.

People have to keep hearing that over and over again to counter an individualistic approach to baptism. Again, it comes back to God's Word. We have to keep having the Scripture taught to us.

In "Stop Dating the Church" I talk about the idea that when you date the church, meaning when you hop around, when you are uncommitted, you are not only first and foremost disobeying God, because God calls you to love His church, but you are cheating yourself because you are not going to be receiving all the grace that flows to you through the church: care, love, encouragement, all that.

And you are cheating others of that because you bring spiritual gifts to the party. You are called to be speaking that truth to somebody else. If people can start to see that and they can realize it is so much bigger than them and they are only thinking of themselves ... I mean with baptism: you are only thinking of yourself if you just want the mountain stream.

Another person who I just talked to recently said they were going over to Israel because they wanted to be baptized in the Jordan River. Okay, I understand that: that is cool. That is a pretty neat thing. But I would love for people to be in place to say, "you know what, unless my church is there I want to be baptized in the fake tank because this is not just about me this is about us. This is about what God is doing in us. God used the people in this church to save me and I want, because I am called to this community, I want unbelievers there, I want them to here me testify to what Jesus has done."

And so, it is not just about me, it is about God and it is about others.

Q. Is there ever a biblical situation where you are in a church that is not guilty of any significant moral failing or doctrinal infidelity where it is valid to leave and go to another church? Maybe you see a church that is thriving, that is biblically healthy, where the leadership of your current church does not share a vision you think a church should have: Is it valid to switch churches in that type of a situation or is that being a church hopper?

JH: It would be important first of all to evaluate the pattern of your own life if you are considering leaving a church to go to another one in your area. If you say, "I'm thinking I should do this." Someone could ask, "Well, have you ever done this before?" And you might say, "Oh, yeah, I've done this eight times in the last two years." If that is the case, you [pastor] might need to stop and say, "Do you realize there is a pattern here, that you are always seeing something better?" So, that is one thing to ask.

But another thing would be to just personally take that before the Lord and evaluate your own motives in it and ask the question, "Okay, have I been serving in this church? Have I been playing a part in helping it to grow?"

Another question I would ask is have you humbly communicated some of those things [reasons you might leave] to the leaders. That is hard to do. It is easier to criticize than to it is to have that face-to-face time where you say, "I respect you, I love this church, but I want to share ways in which I think that we could grow. And I want that to be open to evaluation. Maybe I am not seeing something clearly." That is hard. It is easier just to leave or just to stay and gripe, than it is to humbly present something and not assume you are right.

I would want to evaluate, have I done those things and if the Lord continues to press on me this sense of just a lack of fruitfulness. And I want to process that in a way that is very God-honoring, respectful and not divisive. Not gossiping to other people. Sharing any concerns that you have directly with the leaders. Making sure that, to the best or your ability, you are leaving them with your blessing. That you honor them in the way that you leave. You leave in a way that preserves the unity of that local church and doesn't create any ill will and so on.

So, I think there is a lot of thoughtfulness and prayerfulness needed in a process like that. But I definitely think there can be situations where it is appropriate to leave in a situation like that. I would just encourage people to realize that our tendency is do that too frequently, so just really ask yourself some tough questions and make sure you are leaving for the right reasons.

Q. Do you encourage men to get seminary training, do you take it on case-by-case basis: what is your approach to that?

JH: I would not encourage people to follow my course. I would have benefitted from seminary training. And part of what I need to do in the rest of my days of ministry is to work extra hard to be pursuing theological training in other venues because of my lack of such training. Obviously, I would not trade what I have experienced for the world, but we all have to make up for different deficiencies.

One of my convictions is that, I think it is ideal, if men can be raised up for ministry in the local church where their gifts can really be confirmed and demonstrated in the way that they are serving there. And then for their theological education and training to be such that they are being sent by their local churches. That their training for ministry isn't disconnected from the local church.

I don't think it is ultimately helpful or healthy when people come to that conclusion themselves, where they say, "I want to be in ministry and so I am going to go get this degree and now I need to go shop for a church." I'm not saying the Lord doesn't use that, but what we are trying to do in our local church is to have the training and confirming of guys' calling [to vocational ministry] to happen in the local church.

In Sovereign Grace, we have the pastor's college, which is very different and limited compared to full seminary training, but it is a very rigorous theological training that happens in the context of a local church where they are kind of living in that context and then very quickly deployed to the church that sent them or church planting internships.

But I am just so grateful for what Dr. Mohler is doing and the model at Southern, the army of pastors that is being raised up there. And I know that he has a real heart for that training to more and more connected to the local church. He is a local church man himself. That is what I so respect about him.

The other thing I think is certain men have unique gifts where they would benefit from seminary training in addition to some of the things that we do in Sovereign Grace. Where that extra education would only make them more useful and more strategic in the kingdom.

A live stream of R. Albert Mohler Jr.'s presentation on the future of the Southern Baptist Convention will be broadcast at http://www.sbts.edu/presidents-forum/

The forum begins at 10 a.m., Eastern time.

All Southern Seminary students, faculty and administrative staff are invited and encouraged to attend the President' s Forum on the Future of the Southern Baptist Convention. Dr. Mohler will deliver his thoughts on the future of the denomination in the 21st century.

The Forum will be held in Heritage Hall at 10 a.m., Wednesday, Aug. 19. There will be a Q&A time following the president's address.